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Posted by: News_Desk on 03/03/2017 10:26 AM Updated by: News_Desk on 03/03/2017 10:26 AM
Expires: 01/01/2022 12:00 AM
:

Ban Proponents Admit That Ballot Argument Claiming “Billions” Available From The Feds Is Unsupported; Hearing On Challenge To Other Ballot Arguments Set For Tuesday

San Andreas, CA...Faced with a legal challenge from longtime Calaveras County resident, Bob Bowerman, supporters of Measure B, Bill McManus and David Tunno, conceded that they do not have sufficient facts to back their claim that “Billions of extra dollars to fight marijuana are available from the feds.”



In a document filed with the Superior Court on Wednesday, McManus and Tunno stated under penalty of perjury that their original ballot argument was based on a review of “various programs and websites,” but, after revisiting the issue in light of Bowerman’s challenge, they “have not been able to duplicate all the findings of their previous findings.” Given this lack of evidence, McManus and Tunno offered to change their ballot argument to read “millions of extra dollars”–1,000 times less than the amount originally claimed.

Reached for comment, attorney Jasun Molinelli, whose law firm, Archer Norris, represents Bowerman, stated, “Mr. Bowerman appreciates the ban supporters’ offer to remove this false assertion from their ballot arguments, but their new claim that Calaveras County has access to ‘millions of extra dollars’ in federal funding for eradication is still misleading. Furthermore, we have identified seven other inaccurate ballot arguments that should be corrected to ensure that voters to have reliable information when they return their ballots on May 2nd.”

The corrections sought by Molinelli and his client could come as early as Tuesday, when Bowerman’s challenge will be heard at 1:30 p.m. in Department 3 of the Calaveras County Superior Court. Said Molinelli, “We hope to convince the Court that the disputed ballot arguments are false and, at very least, we will have helped draw the public’s attention to the misleading statements that are being advanced in support of Measure B.”


Comments - Make a comment
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No Subject
Posted on: 2017-03-03 11:12:09   By: Anonymous
 
Ban it!!!!!!!!!

Dial it back!!!!

Limit it!

Choke it off!!!!

Pull the weeds!!!!

[Reply ]

    Re:
    Posted on: 2017-03-03 11:14:51   By: Anonymous
     
    No big commercial grows!!!!

    If everyone in California has a few plants of their own in their own yard
    Pot must lose value and be less a drive for the greedy

    Ban the greedy growers!!!

    Grow your own!!!!

    [Reply ]

      Re:
      Posted on: 2017-03-03 11:17:24   By: Anonymous
       
      The medical benefit of marijuana is spending time gardening
      Otherwise it's side effects are the munchies and dull opinions and beliefs

      Grow your own!!!!

      Ban commercial cultivation!!!!!

      [Reply ]

        Re:
        Posted on: 2017-03-03 11:50:46   By: Anonymous
         
        Yes on ban, we do not need this out of control situation to continue due to lack of responsible performance of the board of supervisors so we have to vote it out. The board of supervisors and planning has allowed this county to go to crap! Take a drive around, are you all proud of this county's appearance. The fire was bad enough but that smell is gone, the other smell will soon be on it's way back and so many grows are so unsightly!!! Those grower/dealers don't give a crap either.

        [Reply ]

          Re:
          Posted on: 2017-03-03 11:51:52   By: Anonymous
           
          Don't take their dirty $$$money$$$!

          [Reply ]

            Re: republican reds McManus Tunno
            Posted on: 2017-03-03 13:17:15   By: Anonymous
             
            Go back to your stone age thinking and BAN it. We will only grow more and it will sell for more money. Thanks McManus and Tunno for preventing the cops from abating our gardens. Drink more whiskey at your tea party events. McManus each time you open your mouth you only make your upcoming problems worse! . By the way I am a neighbor and we are sick of all the trash and old vehicles etc. you have around your home! Clean up your mess you PIG

            [Reply ]

              Re: republican reds McManus Tunno
              Posted on: 2017-03-03 13:26:10   By: Anonymous
               
              Medical THC should be fully regulated by the pharmaceutical companies prescribed by a LEGITIMATE DR. and distributed through a real pharmacy.

              Then and only then will it reach and help the people who actually need it.

              If you like to use marijuana, by all means do so, but please stop hiding behind the card you paid some quack to get.

              [Reply ]

                Re: republican reds McManus Tunno
                Posted on: 2017-03-03 13:58:49   By: Anonymous
                 
                ^ Your comment is null & void because pots is legal in Ca.

                [Reply ]

                  Re: republican reds McManus Tunno
                  Posted on: 2017-03-04 05:32:34   By: Anonymous
                   
                  Plant 6 plants, then plant some grapes, so you can drive drunk just like the winos up here AND be stoned.
                  Then we can also get a chapter called Mothers Against Drunk and Stoned Drivers

                  [Reply ]

                Re: republican reds McManus Tunno
                Posted on: 2017-03-04 10:38:35   By: Anonymous
                 
                required by state of cal. Medical needs a card to purchase. Why do you even bother posting HICK idiot

                [Reply ]

      Re: Measure BS
      Posted on: 2017-03-03 12:05:40   By: Anonymous
       
      The authors/proponent's of this measure can't seem to find much to support their position without resorting to false and misleading claims. I call it: Measure Bullsh*t.

      Even if you want to get rid of commercial cultivation, but support the people's right to grow their own, vote NO ON B.S.

      This measure is an insult to our intelligence.

      These folks do not know what they're doing. They call it a ban on commercial cultivation. In fact, it's ever so much more than that...

      The way it is written, measure BS seeks to make anyone who wants to grow their own for personal use build expensive accessory structures requiring permits, expensive infrastructure and a whole lot of electricity to replace the sun beating down on the roof. This is stupid, and impossible for a lot of citizens.

      Measure BS is inconsistent with state law allowing adults over 21 to grow 6 of their own outdoors in the sun, the way nature intended. This is smarter.

      When a measure is this poorly written, so full of untruth, and causes so many unintended consequences, I vote no.

      If you really want to get rid of commercial cultivation, while maintaining people's hard won right to safe access, let's do this over and get it right.

      Call bullsh*t on measure BS.

      [Reply ]

        Re: Measure BS
        Posted on: 2017-03-03 13:27:09   By: Anonymous
         
        I think you may be surprised as to the support the measure has..

        [Reply ]

      Re:
      Posted on: 2017-03-03 12:59:51   By: Anonymous
       
      Large commercial grows have already been banned under thre urgency ordinance. 1/2 acre is the largest allowed. Measure B destroys the lives of small family farmers. Commercial cannabis farming uses less than .01% of land in Calaveras. To say that we are overrun by cannabis is an exaggeration of epic proportions much like Tunnos assertion that billions of dollars are available to help us eradicate. No on B and their bogus claims.

      [Reply ]

        Re:
        Posted on: 2017-03-04 05:46:01   By: Anonymous
         
        " overrun by cannabis is an exaggeration of epic proportions"?
        I don't think so, it's everywhere and I'm not to happy about it.
        I've been growing it for years and prices are dropping fast. I probably won't buy my two new vehicles this year, just one, cash only. I haven't worked for 20 years and I live better then most because of "medical" marijuana. I hope they ban it so the prices go back up. This put a hiccup in my lazy, relaxed, extravagant, life style.

        [Reply ]

    Re: Hey man
    Posted on: 2017-03-04 12:00:47   By: Anonymous
     
    Hey man let's go get free food since we spent all of our cash for the month on pot at the local Pot Collective and then we can go use our EBT Card and load up on more junk food to curb the munchies and if we are short on gas money to go mooch our friend's stash we can go mooch our friends gas money promising to pay it back but won't then once the new month starts we can do it all over again. Never mind our weight gain, Diabetes, Heart Issues, paying the bills and other health issues we just want to smoke our Pot.

    The above is the sad reality of the Pot User in our Society today. Seen it all for many many a years. The cycle some times never ends through generations of Families. This is the sad reality nobody wants to face.


    [Reply ]

Re: Measure BS
Posted on: 2017-03-03 13:52:38   By: Anonymous
 
Re: "I think you may be surprised as to the support the measure has.."

I'm very much aware that this measure has a good deal of support at present.

Unfortunately, as is often the case with ballot measures, I suspect most of that support is from people who don't fully grasp the situation. I suspect the vast majority of ban supporters think that by passing a ban, they could chase the problems associated with commercial cultivation out of the county. I am of the opinion they are woefully mistaken about that notion.

The BoS that so many people are pissed off at for not passing a ban themselves, have developed a more nuanced understanding of the situation than the average voter. They understand that banning does not = eliminating.

It won't take too long for the current board members to arrive at a similar conclusion once they have immersed themselves in learning the ramifications of attempting to ban vs regulating and taxing. I only wish the opposing camps in the community at large could have a civilized, thoughtful discourse on the matter prior to voting on this now contentious issue. In a short time, both sides would likely find they have more in common that dividing them and might work together to make Calaveras livable for all of us.

[Reply ]

    Re: Measure BS
    Posted on: 2017-03-03 16:55:46   By: Anonymous
     
    Your post is well thought out, and makes some good points. That being said...

    Why should the residents of this county have to compromise with outsiders who want to come in and change everything?

    As far as personal grows being limited to indoors, if this ban takes away so much funding that the sheriff won't be able to police commercial grows i/ does anybody really believe he'll bother someone with six pants?

    Also, the logic of not creating a law because it won't generate money is fundamentally wrong. Just because you don't have the revenue to enforce laws banning bank robbery doesn't mean you should hand out permits to bank robbers, so that at least you can tax them based on on their self declared income, and make rules that they're not allowed to hurt anyone, because everyone knows criminals always abide by regulations and will be truthful about how much they steal.


    [Reply ]

      Re: Measure BS
      Posted on: 2017-03-03 17:23:40   By: Anonymous
       
      Re: "Why should the residents of this county have to compromise with outsiders who..."
      I have to go do some chores before dark and make something to eat. I'll come back in an hour or two and address your points.

      [Reply ]

      Re: Measure BS
      Posted on: 2017-03-03 19:46:37   By: Anonymous
       
      Re: "Why should the residents of this county have to compromise with outsiders who want to come in and change everything?"

      This is a big topic... Speaking to this issue is the kind of thing we could spend an afternoon discussing. But I'll try to address it in short form, but my response will be weak.

      I think it's really at the heart of what many ban proponents are trying to find a way to deal with. We just differ in our approach.

      I think its an oversimplification to believe we will solve cultural and generational differences by passing a really poorly written, ill-conceived ballot measure. I've lived around here for the past 30+ years. I love the fact that by and large, most people here are polite, friendly, and usually even helpful to one another.

      I live right in the heart of the burn scar from the Butte Fire. So I'm right in the middle of the land rush and explosion of pot farms. I see the influx of people who are rude as hell. I would like some of them to leave too. But I've come to know a bit about these folks... The one's we both dislike... They aren't going away anytime soon in response to a toothless ban.

      I'm a registered grower who has passed all the initial hurdles in the regulatory process and am now awaiting my county business license. I had to pass a criminal background check that the sheriff has complete unchecked autonomy in deciding whether I am fit to be trusted in that position. I had to pay to have a biological and cultural study done, to determine whether my activities would disturb any threatened species or native artifacts. I have to pay to report to, and be subject to inspection by the state water quality control board to ensure my activities don't cause erosion, nitrate runoff, etc. A $5,000 fee to the county to cover the cots of creating and enforcing regulations.Opening up my garden to code compliance for inspection and canopy measurement for tax purposes. Register with the state and incorporate. Get a sellers permit from the board of equalization and pay sales taxes.If measure BS fails, and I am permitted to continue... Measure C taxes at $2 per sq ft of canopy. With a 22k sq ft limit presently imposed by the county, that is $44k per year, per farm. And on and on.

      My point is... people going through all of this and coming out the other end of the process are clearly in it for the long run. We've invested a lot of money and labor to be fully compliant. The only reason I did all this was for future opportunity. If I was the person we'd all like to be rid of, I wouldn't have done any of that. I would have come in, taken what I could before I got the boot. With people like myself contributing substantially to the general fund, the county has both the incentive and the means to abate bad actors in our communities.

      Re: "As far as personal grows being limited to indoors, if this ban takes away so much funding that the sheriff won't be able to police commercial grows i/ does anybody really believe he'll bother someone with six pants?"

      As written in measure B... Personal growing is MORE than limited to indoors. It would require a special building. When it comes to whether the sheriff will bother someone with 6 plants... Maybe. It's like Russian Roulette. Just because there's only a one in six chance you'll blow your brains out isn't a good reason to play. And what if the sheriff just didn't like you for some personal reason. That's like putting 2 or 3 bullets in. But at the larger commercial scale, it looks a bit different... If a person were to grow an acre or two of weed on rented land without a rigorous permitting process, and a one in six chance of success... Why not? Investment is low, collateral belongs to someone else, returns are high. These are the folks we wish weren't here. Measure B.S. incentivizes this crap.


      Re: "Also, the logic of not creating a law because it won't generate money is fundamentally wrong. Just because you don't have the revenue to enforce laws banning bank robbery doesn't mean you should hand out permits to bank robbers, so that at least you can tax them based on on their self declared income, and make rules that they're not allowed to hurt anyone, because everyone knows criminals always abide by regulations and will be truthful about how much they steal."

      As a matter of principle, I completely agree with you. But I read the question differently.

      I would argue that a successfully registered grower is not reasonably likened to a bank robber. Pretty close to two out of three of these are getting weeded out (pun intended) in the regulatory process.

      By definition, the difference betweena criminal and a law abiding citizen is compliance with the laws of the land and the coin of the realm.

      I'm trying to approach the problems associated with this question in a way that will best serve the most interested parties AND will actually work. I want to like living here too.

      [Reply ]

        betweena
        Posted on: 2017-03-03 23:20:49   By: Anonymous
         
        Cool.

        [Reply ]

        Re: Measure BS
        Posted on: 2017-03-04 05:07:03   By: Anonymous
         
        Very well written. Also, true. I have gone through the same process of inspections, fees, and water board reporting. I moved to my home in 1977. My garden is safe, clean and quiet. My dogs are a chihuahua and dachshund (rescues). I do not have weapons
        Some of the folks so adamant to ban just do not understand the regulations the legal, permitted farms follow
        Banning is really just deregulation. Many applicants are being denied. That is serious regulation


        [Reply ]

    Re: Measure BS
    Posted on: 2017-03-03 17:00:31   By: Anonymous
     
    Stop worrying so much about how many $50 words you can cram into a sentence, and worry a little more about how dumb the points you are making are.

    [Reply ]

No Subject
Posted on: 2017-03-03 16:43:30   By: Anonymous
 
LOLLLLLLL!!!! Measure BS! That's the funniest thing I've read all day and I haven't even had my weed yet. I think I'll roll a big medicinal doobie and read this whole page again. Good show Bill & Dave!

[Reply ]

If I've said it once, I'll say it again. *NEW & IMPROVED*
Posted on: 2017-03-03 18:11:10   By: Anonymous
 
No matter what happens, the small-time medicinal grower will be getting another boot to the groin, while the Hmong gangs & Mexican cartels will simply just ignore the ban.

There I've posted it again, because for some reason, JOHN seems to think this information, my freedom of speech should be squelched.
He edited my 1st post leaving no trace, or "edited by the Pinetree" message, nope, just took the whole post down.

Well

>>>LEAVE THIS BECAUSE IT'S TRUE!

[Reply ]

    Re: If I've said it once, I'll say it again. *NEW & IMPROVED*
    Posted on: 2017-03-03 19:56:33   By: thepinetree
     
    We only deliberately remove comments that single out private citizens, contain profanity or are just over the line for common decency.

    Occasionally if a comment was nested below an offending comment it may inadvertently get removed as well

    We value free speech and believe we would not have our constitution or continue to maintain our freedoms without it.

    [Reply ]

      Re: If I've said it once, I'll say it again. *NEW & IMPROVED*
      Posted on: 2017-03-03 21:49:24   By: Anonymous
       
      Dave is a top, Bill his bottom. Toss a little Mills in there for some extra ego, and you're set - the perfect BS sandwich. Want one? It'll cost you millions!

      [Reply ]

      Re: If I've said it once, I'll say it again. *NEW & IMPROVED*
      Posted on: 2017-03-03 23:18:31   By: Anonymous
       
      Thanks..

      [Reply ]

What it boils-down to
Posted on: 2017-03-04 00:35:28   By: Anonymous
 
Price per LB. w/ ban/vs/price without a ban. No ban, a grower would be lucky to get $400/LB at harvest.
With ban, there's where it becomes profitable to grow again, good indoor $1600-$3200/LB, $1200-$2400 outdoor pot.

[Reply ]

No Subject
Posted on: 2017-03-04 03:32:23   By: Anonymous
 
Bank the pot farmers get them out of the county. YES ON BP
Bowerman is a greasy low life pot head

[Reply ]

No Subject
Posted on: 2017-03-04 07:20:53   By: Anonymous
 
The signs put up by the No on B people are also saying false things.

The $11 million is not a known number, not by a long shot.

Also, the Board of Supervisors determines the funding of all county departments, including all Law Enforcement. They could decide to throw all the available dollars at the Sheriff's Office and cut all other departments to make that happen (bad idea probably)

The No on B people are using scare tactics to try to get people to vote no.

The No on B people, including the CCA, should come out publicly and state they would like a permanent ordinance that removes all cannabis from all residential areas and this might make some of us undecided people think about voting No on B. The growers won't do this of course since the majority their grows are on some sort of residential zoned parcels.

[Reply ]

    Re:
    Posted on: 2017-03-04 13:22:42   By: Anonymous
     
    Enforcement and eradication of cannabis is via Code Enforcement, not Sheriff. Why make people afraid that Law Enforcement will be unfunded? That is just stupid and misleading.

    Who is putting out false and misleading statements? The growers!

    [Reply ]

Ban
Posted on: 2017-03-04 09:47:14   By: Anonymous
 
Here we have 2 fine men that pro-pot people are trying to destroy. Their lives have been threatened, but yet they do what is right for our County = get rid of drug dealers. Bill & David do this because they care about kids and our way of life & I support their efforts 100%. I know plenty of commercial rice, tomato & garlic farmers and pot growers are not farmers. Growing pot is all about money & getting stoned, if you don't believe that, you are probably stoned.
BAN it !

[Reply ]

    Re: Ban
    Posted on: 2017-03-05 13:16:42   By: Anonymous
     
    rice, tomato & garlic

    [Reply ]

    Re: Ban
    Posted on: 2017-03-06 00:53:32   By: Anonymous
     
    "Bill & David do this because they care about kids" - what a joke. If they have a sh*t about our kids, they'd use their evidently massive amounts of free time prodding our BOS to earmark Measure C money for our kids. And if you think they're great men, just read their comments. Greatness? Nope.

    [Reply ]

      Re: Ban
      Posted on: 2017-03-06 00:56:03   By: Anonymous
       
      Bill and Dave seem like fine men indeed! They have that "I smell like smoke and stale beer" look. Bunch of NIMBYs...

      [Reply ]


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